Tuesday, July 20, 2010

Part of a letter I don't want to loose on perseverance of the saints

In answer to a question about Hebrews 6 . What are verses that deal with not loosing your salvation:

As far as verses about not loosing your salvation, scripture has to agree with scripture. I have basically seen the Hebrew passages [such as Hebrews 6--there are more than one) as examples of Matt 13:1-9 which is the parable of the sower. Jesus talks about the seeds in verse 5 -"Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up, since they had no depth of soil 6 but when the sun rose they were scorched. And since they had no root, they withered away. 7 Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. 8 Other seeds fell on good soil and produced grain, some a hundredfold.....etc . I think as in Hebrews 6 it is possible to have a taste of the Holy Spirit working, and to be enlightened and to taste the goodness of the word etc, and not to be saved. You can be sitting under the preaching of the word and be enlightened by the Spirit and taste him, but not be saved. True Christians who have experienced salvation by the indwelling Spirit of God will be those in verse 8 of the parable.

Here are some verses about not loosing salvation:

John 316--that whoever believes in him should not perish but HAVE ETERNAL Life.

John 5:24--Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me HAS ETERNAL LIFE. He does not come into judgment , BUT HAS PASSED from death to life.

John 6:47--Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes HAS ETERNAL LIFE.

John 6:54 Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood HAS eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

**John 10:27 and following is powerful: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I GIVE them ETERNAL LIFE, and NO ONE WILL SNATCH THEM OUT OF MY HAND. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and NO ONE is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.

I believe all of this has to do with the perseverance of the saints. True believers will persevere in their belief. Heb 3 :14 "for we SHARE in Christ, IF INDEED we hold our original confidence firm to the end." Those that fall away really did not SHARE IN CHrist.

Philippianns 1:6 "And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ."

Matt 18:14: So it is not the will of my Father who is in heaven that one of these little ones should perish."

Ephesians 1: 3 and following 3"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even AS HE CHOSE US IN HIM BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for ADOPTION through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, WITH WHICH HE HAS BLESSED us IN THE BELOVED. 7 IN him we HAVE REDEMPTION through HIS BLOOD, THE FORGIVENESS OF OUR TRESPASSES, according to the riches of his grace, 8 WHICH HE LAVISHED upon us, in all wisdom and insight, 9 making known to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ ......

{notice adoption couldn't be reversed in Roman times--also notice the tense of the verbs)


verse 13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, WERE SEALED with the promised HOLY Spirit, 14 who is the GUARANTEE of our INHERITANCE until we acquire posession of it, to the praise of his glory."

[We have been chosen before the foundation of the world and SEALED and as John said earlier--no one can snatch us out of his hands]

Ephesians 2 :1 said we were once "DEAD in the trepasses and sins in which you once walked......"

BUT verse 4 "But God, being rich in mercy, because of the GREAT LOVE with which HE LOVED US, 5 EVEN WHEN we were DEAD in our trespasses, MADE US ALIVE TOGETHER WITH CHRIST--by grace YOU HAVE BEEN SAVED--6 and RAISED us up with him and SEATED us with hiim IN THE HEAVENLY places IN Christ JESUS, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the IMMEASURABLE RICHES OF THIS GRACE IN KINDNESS toward us in CHRIST JESUS. 8 FOR BY GRACE you HAVE BEEN SAVED through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God 9 NOT A RESULT of WORks so that no one may boast. 10 For we are HIS WORKMANSHIP, CREATED in Christ Jesus for good works, which GOD PREPARED bEFOREHAND, that we should walk in them."

[note--we were once dead in our sins but now are alive. by grace you HAVE BEEN SAVED--past tense--done deal. EVen our raising and seating in the heavenly places is past tense--done deal. pretty wonderful stuff here in Ephesians! yippppppeeee!---so a person who is in Christ who has passed from death to life will persevere in belief because of God's power, grace, towards us}

II Thes 3:3 'But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one."

Romans 8:35-39--nothing shall separate us from the love of God--not death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, .......etc.

As one guy put it--"The moment one believes, eternal life becomes a reality, a present possession, and not merely a conditional gift of the future. " John 6:51 "I am the living bread which came down out of heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live forever." As this commentator put it" He does not say that we have to eat many times, but that if we eat at all, we shall live for ever." Also "Whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall become in him a well of water springing up unto eternal life"--John 4:14.

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony, that God GAVE US ETERNAL LIFE, and this life is in his Son. 12 Whoever HAS the SON HAS LIFE; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you MAY KNOW THAT YOU HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. "

Heb 10:14 "For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified."

II Timothy 4:18 The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed and bring me safely into his heavenly kingdom...."

Romans 8: 29-30 "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whhom he justified he also glorified."

As one guy has put it : "Christ makes intercession for His people (Rom.8:34; Heb 7:25), and we are told that the Father hears Him always (John 11:42). Hence the Arminian, holding that Christians may fall away must deny either the passages which declare that Christ does make intercession for His people, or he must deny those which declare that His prayers are always heard. Let us consider here how well protected we are: Christ is at the right hand of God pleading for us, and in addition to that , the Holy Spirit makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered, Romans 8:26."

Here are some more references: Jer. 32:40, Ezek 11:19-20. I peter 1:5, II Cor 9:8, Romans 14:4, II Tim 2:19, Luke 10:20, Phil 4:3, Rev 3:5, 13:8 17:8, 20:12-15; 21:27 (These last passages refer to the lamb's book of life--one guy says, "basically the names of the righteous are found there;but the names of those who perish have never been written there from the foundation of the world {read those passages]. God does not make the mistake of writing in the book of life a name which He will later have to blot out. Hence none of the Lord's own ever perish. Jesus told His disciples to find their chief joy in the fact that their names were written in heaven, Luke 1020; yet there would have been small grounds for joy in this respect if their names written in heaven one day could have been blotted out the next."

There is a good reference to the perseverence of the saints on page 1627 in the Reformation study Bible (esv). I like this paragraph, "In declaring the eternal security of God's people it is perhaps clearer to speak of their preservation than, as is usually done, of their perseverance. Perseverance means continued adherence to a belief despite discouragement and opposition. The reason that believers persevere in faith and obedience, however, is not the strength of their own commitment, but that Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit preserves them. "

It gives a whole bunch of references in this place on page 1627. It does not mean that all who ever professed to be Christians will be saved....nor those who try to live a Christian life in their own abilities...some will say Lord, Lord Matt 7:21-23......but it is those who have truly believed and been regenerated by God. These true believers, may backslide...but the Holy Spirit will not leave them alone--he will convict, and compel them to repent and be restored.